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Tellen is een kunst

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09:11
02/07/2009


M

Guest

 
101

Dat gezegd hebbende zijn er overwegingen om de theorie niet zonder meer als onzinnig af te doen. Ik houd hem in beraad, nog lange lange tijd.

Eens. Toch blijft de onderliggende vraag of samenlevingen altfijd door hetzelfde patroon gaan. Bij mensen kan je dat grofweg zeggen: in de het opgroeien gaan kinderen foor ongeveer dezelfde fases (twee-is-nee, puberteit, etc). Voor een samenleving kan je ook als premise stellen dat verschillende interacties tot verschillende uitkomsten leiden, en het geen lineaire ontwikkeling hoeft te zijn.China is immers ook weer een andere cultuur/systeem dan het Westen.

Op zich wel inteessant om te naar te kijken. Dat wel.

10:26
02/07/2009


Ludwig von Mises

Member

posts 51

 
102

101: Ik denk dat je gelijk hebt, ik zie heel veel goeds in Europa gebeuren. Ik zie FD Roosevelt en eerder presidenten als kwade genius van veel dat er gebeurt sinds Teddy Roosevelt, de eerste imperial president. Dat lijken we in Europa anders te willen doen.


Vandaag vrij druk, lig een dag achter.


10:30
02/07/2009


Ludwig von Mises

Member

posts 51

 
103

De VVD ziet liever dat particulieren worden gestimuleerd hun spaargeld in het eigen huis te stoppen.

Tja, weer een subsidie van de woningmarkt. Ben ik moreel tegen. Maar goed, roll with it. Als ie er komt gebruik van maken natuurlijk. Moreel ben je ook verplicht om netto zo min mogelijk geld richting de overheid te sturen teneinde de exponentiële van overheidsbemoeienins te stoppen

ik had er overheen gelezen, was mij om de verlaging btw tarief te doen. VVD heeft natuurlijk wel een punt, haar eigen acterbab wil; nog wel eens van de hypotheekrenteaftrek profiteren en tegelijk rente trekken op eigen vermogen. Dat is een geldmachine waar geen risico of analyse aan ten grondslag ligt….


11:01
02/07/2009


Ludwig von Mises

Member

posts 51

 
104

'Fiscale noodtoestand' in Californië

SAN FRANCISCO  -  De Californische gouverneur Arnold Schwarzenegger heeft woensdag de 'fiscale noodtoestand' uitgeroepen in de grootste Amerikaanse staat. Californië kan vanaf donderdag zijn rekeningen niet meer betalen. Dit komt vooral door sterk teruggelopen

12:01
02/07/2009


Ludwig von Mises

Member

posts 51

 
105

13:09
02/07/2009


M

Guest

 
106

Uit dat telegraaf-artikel:

Volgens het rapport zal de Nederlandse economie dit jaar met 4,5 procent krimpen en in 2010 zal de economische groei vlak zijn. Voor 2011 wordt gerekend op een groei van het Nederlandse bruto binnenlands product (bbp) met 0,9 procent en in 2012 met 2,2 procent.

Het uitdrukken van economische groei in eurootjes is eigenlijk ook waanzin; de relatie met de drukpers is te groot. Als Trichet maar genoeg bomen kapt kan de eurozone veel eerder een “economische groei” tegemoet zien.

Blijft wel een van de betere alternatieven om de groei te meten, maar het is geen indicator die immer zoutloos gegeten kan worden.

13:25
02/07/2009


M

Guest

 
107

When the $ was completely backed by Gold, Gold mining companies were never nationalized. Why would you assume the case now?
I sincerely doubt we will ever go to 100% backed system which would mean perpetual deflation as Gold supply has peaked and will never keep up with population growth.
I think you would concur that if no additional money is printed Gold would have to to rise over $20,000 (maybe as high as $65,000) to back the USD by Gold.

When the dollar had gold backing, that meant that you could always get gold if you had dollars, right? We are never going back to a gold backed dollar. Instead we are moving ahead to OIL BACKED GOLD!

Gold will have the backing of oil! Think about this. It means that you can always get oil if you have gold!

Today there is paper wealth and there is gold. As it is right now, paper is the legal tender form of wealth storage and gold is relegated to lowly commodity. It is this relationship that allows for gold mining in its present form, and for YOU to own a share of it!

It is the financial industry's tangled web of contractual obligations that allows you to loan capital to a massive mining operation which sells its gold-the-commodity “in the ground” based on a future price quote from an exchange that trades contractual obligations.

“Paper the wealth reserve” as well as its “financial industry of tangled contractual obligations” is in the process of defaulting and collapsing! This transformation will elevate gold from a lowly commodity to wealth reserve. But in the process, paper wealth will prove NOT to be the real thing. This includes mining shares.

When the gold market shifts from paper to physical, the paper contractual obligations will continue trading all the way to near zero. It will be the shorting opportunity of a lifetime! ;) Then, all gold obligations will be settled with fiat at the gold-the-commodity price… wherever COMEX comes to rest!

And the gold mines will be “bought out” by the government at this lowly valuation.

13:26
02/07/2009


M

Guest

 
108

Some of his points..for example regarding central banks selling Gold over a period of time rather than all together..make sense. Most of the rest seem pure delusions to me.
He was talking as if the whole world was going to tank to zero and we are going to go into bunkers and hold Gold in our hands till our last breath.
Gold is valuable for the current crisis no doubt. It will probably go quite high in the current situation. But what he was describing was some sick annihilation of the whole system. What good will 10 ounces of gold be to someone if he cannot exchange any of it for food even for a day?
He is completely wrong about the mass psychology of people. People will accept 5-7 even 9% PA inflation very easily. If you give them interest rates high enough. THAT is why Gold never went vertical during the 1980's as interest rates were Higher than the rate of inflation.While everyone was proclaiming Gold standard would make a comeback Volcker broke Gold's back by simply giving people a real rate of return versus zero for Gold.

13:28
02/07/2009


M

Guest

 
109

Finally he truly defines what a Gold Bug is by making Gold sound like panacea for everything. I know you are close to that camp too, but seriously if Gold is such a good source of value then how come
between 1492 and 1919 with NO CENTRAL BANK to sell or depress the price of GOLD, Gold lost 90% of Its value?

grafiek

13:31
02/07/2009


M

Guest

 
110

(dit is een discussie tussen 2 mensen; cursief is spreker 1, normale tekst staat voor numero 2)

You say, “People will accept 5-7 even 9% PA inflation very easily. If you give them interest rates high enough.”

If you GIVE THEM? Where does this yield come from? This is the problem with fiat. It is ALWAYS flirting with zero to negative REAL return. The beauty of Freegold, as described by Another and FOA is that it FINALLY conquers this negative return… for the long run!

13:33
02/07/2009


M

Guest

 
111

Dan qoute de cursieve spreker ANOTHER:

“If you owned a commodity in the ground that had to be sold for paper currency in order to realize value what would do? Yes, the oil in the ground may last another 50+ years but will the bonds and currencies of other governments last that long? One thing you don't do is buy gold outright, it would cause it to stop trading as a commodity and start trading as money! You learned that in the late 70s. Nor do you acquire “real gold money” in any fashion that would allow a comparison of price trends ( graphs ) ! There must be a way to convert the true wealth of oil into the outright wealth of gold. We know that oil is a consumed wealth of a momentary value that is lost in the heat of fire.

13:35
02/07/2009


M

Guest

 
112

Deze wil je tussendoor ook niet missen: terug naar de basics, papiergeld uit de vergelijking

13:44
02/07/2009


M

Guest

 
113

Dan terug:

Volcker's comments..It does not matter where the fiat comes from. It is irrelevant. As long as overall money is created at a slower rate than the interest paid on the fiat Gold would remain useless.

For years during the period mentioned, SA rarely had a balanced budget. Simply they DID NOT accumulate a lot of dollars. They got dollars for oil but spent all of it. Why would they care where the dollar went in 50 years? It is only when they would have huge trade and budget surpluses that they would care.
They did not at the time when he wrote those ideas so he was completely off base.
With those piddly dollars they did accumulate they could easily buy Gold. They were beggars at the time. Would their buying push the price higher? Yes! but run their dollar reserves accumulated each year versus Gold ounces they could buy each year, and then decide if you think buying a couple of million ounces a year would push the price in the sky.

Here is the piece their resistance.
I almost fell off my chair when I read that part about SA not being able to buy enough Gold without pushing the price higher.
Here is the math which Another was incapable of doing
SA sold about 7 Million barrels a day for an average price between $10-15. Let us say about $10 was profit.
That is $70 Million a day. About $25 Billion a year.Assuming that poor country could save any of it ..which they could not..how much Gold could they buy? Remember they ran budget deficits at the time. So technically they could spend all the dollars but assuming they could “SAVE” 20% ( you will agree that is super generous) they would not be able to buy even 1% of the World's Gold at prices of $400 an ounce a year with $5 billion a year. Remember above ground Gold is growing at 2-2.5% year. So they might push the price higher but hardly in a way that Another envisions.
The math just does not add up.

13:55
02/07/2009


M

Guest

 
114

http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/0,1518,633690,00.html

It seems clear that the banks would rather invest the cheap money they can borrow from central banks in safe investments, such as German government bonds offering 2.5 percent interest, than lend it to companies whose prospects, in the middle of a recession, are anything but rosy. And they are also lining their pockets with the fees they charge customers who are forced to go overdrawn as a result of the crisis.

13:55
02/07/2009


M

Guest

 
115

114 is een nieuw bericht los van de discussie van daarvoor.

14:00
02/07/2009


M

Guest

 
116

Verder uit het artikel van 114

Banks still have unimaginable amounts of toxic securities on their balance sheets. The International Monetary Fund (IMF) estimates that potential global write-downs resulting from the financial crisis could be over $4 trillion (€2.85 trillion). Crisis-related write-downs to date amount to only about $1.5 trillion (€1.1 trillion).

Two years since the start of the financial crisis, many banks are still on the brink of disaster — with devastating consequences for the real economy. Hans-Werner Sinn, the president of the influential Munich-based Ifo Institute for Economic Research, sees the “under-capitalization of the banking system and the high levels of hidden losses that have not yet been disclosed” as the main obstacle to Germany's further economic development.

No matter how much additional liquidity ECB President Jean-Claude Trichet and his staff pump into the market, banks' capital ratios remain a limiting factor when it comes to issuing credit.

Jij bent toch van de Macro-economie? Waarom zijn al die banken hun buffers aan het vergroten? Buffers zijn er toch juist om klappen op te vangen? Het lijkt mij een stuk logischer om de buffers totaal te legen tijdens zo'n crisis. Doe je dat niet dan zijn het eerder balasttanks dan buffers.


14:01
02/07/2009


M

Guest

 
117

A similarly disastrous development is beginning to emerge among companies. According to Creditreform, a German company that collects creditworthiness data, 16,650 companies with a total of 250,000 employees have had to file for bankruptcy since the crisis began. Experts predict German banks will be hit by up to €170 billion ($238 billion) in recession-related loan defaults by the end of next year.

14:03
02/07/2009


M

Guest

 
118

Tot slot deze nog even:

Okay, here is how the theory goes….

Is China ALREADY out of the dollar?

China supposedly has $2T in foreign reserves, mostly dollar denominated.

So why would they make remarks that could trigger a run on the dollar?

Perhaps they have already bailed out of the dollar in a surreptitious way over the last 15 years!

Look at the “reliability” of statistics we receive from the media. The MSM quotes Chinese statistics as if they are verifiable FACTS. But are they?

Look at history. Through the 1800's and 1900's China was invaded many times, including by Britain and the US. China is famously contemptuous of foreign governments.

It is likely that Chinese statistics are designed to generate an EFFECT, and not to reveal the truth.

Recently it is believed that China has $1.3T dollars. How did they get these? By falling for a swindle?

In the 80's, China began liberalizing. But it's population had been raised on socialism. So to the ways of the West, they were, in a word, naive.

For years the Fed pumped out dollars by the boatload and Americans used them to buy up Chinese goods.

The Chinese business model became “work hard to produce real good and sell them to a counterfeiter”.

By the mid-90's, the Chinese were not so naive anymore and they realized they had been swindled.

So what would you do if you were the Chinese? You might face the fact that you cannot openly dishoard all your dollars without triggering a run on the dollar. So you would look for ways to do it on the sly.

You might set up a whole network of front companies to buy up non-dollar assets all over the world. Factories, office buildings, land, mining operations, etc… And you would pay for these assets with long term contracts denominated in dollars!

hose long term contracts would be paid for over time with the dollars YOU ALREADY HAD!

How would anyone spot this? You have one company buying a factory in one country and another company buying an office building in another. Would those two different sellers know anything about the other deal in a different country? Could they put it together and recognize the pattern of Chinese companies buying tangible assets in long term contracts denominated in US dollars?

Even if the entire $1.3T has been pledged, how would anyone know?

One suspicion Richard cites is that he has talked to many world travelers who report unexpectedly coming across Chinese signs in front of big buildings in out-of-the-way places. He wonders if translated these signs all read “End the Fed”.

Outsiders cannot look at the real Chinese accounting records, so there is no way to really know what is going on inside China.

So why are they making public comments about the dollar now? Couldn't a run on the dollar affect their holdings? No. What shows up on their “public” accounting as $1.3T is not really dollars. It is the ASSETS they have purchased all over the world!

As soon as they receive a new dollar they pass it off to someone else in the form of a long term contract to buy whatever that seller is selling. It is the SELLER who is left holding the dollar bag! Not the Chinese.

A normal accounting ledger looks like this: Assets - Liabilities = Net Worth.

Perhaps the Chinese ledger works like this: Assets = Liabilities + Net Worth.

The US dollars are surreptitiously in the LIABILITIES column, and non-dollar assets are in the Net Worth column.

The occasional public statements about the dollar are a shot across Washington's bow saying “get your financial house in order or else we will reveal that we bailed out of your currency a long time ago and you'll be as dead as Rome.”

14:16
02/07/2009


Ludwig von Mises

Member

posts 51

 
119

Veel tekst, ik zie scheel van moeheid, dus ik wil er later naar kijken. 1 ding kan ik slapend op in gaan: china heeft haar posities al afgedekt en gehedged, daar ben ik van overtuigd.


14:22
02/07/2009


Ludwig von Mises

Member

posts 51

 
120

@ 106: Eens.

Heb jij een link naar de lap tekst die de poste, print ik hem uit voor bedliteratuur.



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